We saw your new server

[Alpha]

I feel like a lot of Luftwaffe guys would enjoy it less, being so hilariously outnumbered and outperformed as they were historically.

You pretty much answered yourself on this thread. The VVS pilots are also aware they lost Moscow badly (on ground, cause if we are going to be fully historical the LW would strafe us without warning and with us still sitting on the dispersal huts, right?)

My point is, your views should be coherent and not change depending if it’s Moscow/Bodenplatte. If we need to suck it up for Moscow, LW should suck it up for Bodenplatte. If we are to change things a bit so everyone has fun, I’m all up for it. Equal terms for different air battles, so that everyone can have fun. Isn’t what this is all about, afterall?

My views are 'coherent' (though I think you meant 'consistent'?). We're re-enacting a war here, and someone always loses. I know ahead of time that if we're to do late-war Luftwaffe operations in ACG, it would likely be quite rough on the Luftwaffe because that's what happened in reality.

I'm not sure if this is a language-barrier thing, or if you're just deliberately misrepresenting a point I made months ago in an effort to stir shit and make me look like some kind of hypocrite, but my personal opinion on the matter is and always was that the Luftwaffe should take their beating with grace and good humour if/when we do Bodenplatte, and I hope the VVS does the same in this case.

We do of course need to keep it fun, as this is a hobby and not an actual war, which is why certain concessions are made. The hard part is making the right concessions in the right places, and that's what we're currently trying to figure out.

I haven't taken issue with any of the posts people have made on this subject except yours, Alpha. I've worked like a dog on all of this and I really don't appreciate you digging up a post I made months ago and distorting it to paint me as a hypocrite. I dearly hope this is a mutual misunderstanding.

Coherent would be the correct word in my native language, which isn’t English. But you got the point. I thank you and all the box team for your hard work. I am still here to fly MiGs against F2s, and I’m not shitting my pants. I didn’t leave because I don’t like the aircraft or the theatre. About me trying to make you look like a hypocrite, I will be honest and short: it is exactly what I meant. Sorry. Define your stance for the campaign, either go full historical and have us fly without radio and be strafed before taking off, or balance things a bit. Whatever you decide, it should apply for future battles. Don’t ask us to take a beating with a smile on our face, and warn us that you won’t smile back at us when your time comes. Those who fear it can always switch sides back to have the advantage.

[LuftAsher]

About me trying to make you look like a hypocrite, I will be honest and short: it is exactly what I meant. Sorry. Define your stance for the campaign, either go full historical and have us fly without radio and be strafed before taking off, or balance things a bit. Whatever you decide, it should apply for future battles. Don’t ask us to take a beating with a smile on our face, and warn us that you won’t smile back at us when your time comes. Those who fear it can always switch sides back to have the advantage.

Since you apparently can't read, here it is again:

my personal opinion on the matter is and always was that the Luftwaffe should take their beating with grace and good humour if/when we do Bodenplatte, and I hope the VVS does the same in this case.

If the historical situation calls for suffering, there should be some suffering involved in the campaign mission design. That is my personal opinion which does not represent the opinion of the entire BoX team. This is my opinion now, and was my opinion when I made the post you're referring to.

I never said a damn thing about not being willing to take a beating if that's what happened historically. I've done my best to be polite about this whole thing, but it's too bloody early in the morning for that right now, so take your post-mining and word-twisting and shove it, mate.

[Alpha]

I said you seemed worried about this exact same point regarding Bodenplatte. Read it again. But about Moscow you are implying that people are overreacting. If you’re willing to take a beating, good for you mate. I didn’t do post mining, I just have good memory of what I read. I certainly didn’t do word twisting. And one more thing, you eloquently tried to call me dumb with the language barrier thing, so your efforts to be polite are you being cynical. Excuse me for me bad english. I’ll shove it now... Up yours!

[LuftAsher]

I said you seemed worried about this exact same point regarding Bodenplatte. Read it again. But about Moscow you are implying that people are overreacting. If you’re willing to take a beating, good for you mate. I didn’t do post mining, I just have good memory of what I read. I certainly didn’t do word twisting. I’ll shove it... Up yours!

I said the Luftwaffe might enjoy it less than they think, and you've gone and tried to turn that into me being perfectly willing to make things miserable for the opposition and not be willing to have the same thing happen to me when that's not true and never was.

You shove it wherever you like, Alpha. Idiots are easily entertained so I'm sure it'll work for you no matter what.

[Von Archie]

We have to take off with at least a fighting chance (or the illusion thereof )of victory to make it all feel worthwhile.

I flew 110's all through the BoB ( and Leaning Forward...) , and not once did I take off thinking I would even make it back to base, let alone shoot anything down.
I love the fact we are now flying bombers in BoX, the future for ACG is very bright, if only people give it a chance

[Leifr]

So, about those 88s...

[LuftAsher]

So, about those 88s...

The short answer is yes, but there's a caveat. Bombers in ACG Campaign has been a contentious issue for as long as I've been around. We've got a good chance to prove that it can be done and done right here, but we have to capitalise on it. Currently we have a Stuka unit that is quite short of people. Anyone who wants bombers to succeed in ACG Campaign should consider putting in a tour with the Stukas and helping show that yes, there is a demand for this, and yes, they'll keep coming for more bomber action.

That applies to people in ACG already, and people who are watching and waiting right now. If you want bombers to succeed and become a campaign mainstay, get involved, come sling some eggs, come set the bar. If you put the effort in, we will do right by you. That's a guaran-damn-tee and you can take it straight to the bank.

If the people who have been begging for bombers all this time sit back and watch it happen, and let it fail due to low numbers, low morale and low mission success, they will have no one to blame but themselves when bombers go back on the shelf and stay there.

So Leifr, if you and your boys would like to come fly Ju-88s, please consider joining up now and flying Stukas for a while. If we can get the support and the success behind it, there's no reason bombers can't stick around for good.

[Boyezee]

+ 1 to Luft

The Ju-87 and the Pe-2 squadrons are a great opportunity for those that want to see human bombers in campaign, so for those that are championing them please consider joining their ranks or if not at least working closely with those groups to form an effective escort in missions.

I was in the 'no human bombers' camp in BoB but I think it has a chance of working in Box and to a certain extent needs to work given the server resource issues with AI on this platform.

[Welshy]

None of this should be done in front of company

[Leifr]

-snip-

Cheers Luft.
I'll put it to the lads and get back to you.

S!